This was originally about my true meanings behind my paintings. I have another similar website here http://visuallyexperimentinguniversalsymbols.blogspot.com/ which is my public face. This is my much darker, side. It's not light reading. Mostly it is about my Mother with Narcissistic Personality Disorder and my Father who enables her.
For years I have wanted to get my name off the title. I didn't want to be someone who owned property with my mother. I felt I was mislead or at least I didn't understand the complexities of being on a title with them, nor did I want any responsibilities in relation to being on the title, perceived or real. To this day I don't know if what my mother told me was a mistake or if she intended to mislead me. I will never know for sure if she really knew that there would be no loss of money to all three parties on the title if I removed my name, and was just telling me I would cause great financial loss to everyone involved if I didn't stay on the title...
After finding out that my parents are indeed moving to BC, I felt I had to rush things. David and I checked with a lawyer and sure enough there were some discrepancies in what she told us. After a relatively benign confrontation with my mom and dad, she basically had to go along with what I wanted because now both dad and I know what is going on.
My mom still tried to bribe me into telling her why I really wanted to get my name off the title. "Since we are paying this to you, I was wondering if you could tell me why you really want to take your name off the title." I stood firm: I said my reasons were always the same and had never changed. It had nothing to do with anyone else influencing me. She paid us $200 so we could process the paperwork. If she hadn't signed what she did then we would have not been able to remove my name from the title and even if I had, some of the forms she signed allowed me to pay the reduced fee instead of the full $600.
This whole thing with the paperwork and my parents moving coincided with things happening at work and some financial difficulties. So I was a bit of a wreck. Thank GOD I have David beside me, or I would be a puddle of pain.
Well, as a result of all the turmoil going on, here is the painting I was working on before my parents left...
JUL10, 2010: PERSONA; (16 X 20")
... Some details of the painting below...
An email thread regarding this painting: to read it in its chronological order read from the bottom original email and then upward...
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From: T
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 11:13 AM
To: Holly
Subject: RE: A painting from Holly
Yup, that answers my question. I think you are (or strive to be) and honest person, but you feel like you have to deal with your mother as a dishonest person. (“She can’t handle the truth!!”) So you get squeezed by your morals on one side and your experience of trying to be honest with her on the other side, and you end up a Holly sandwich of misery.
So here’s the challenge: somehow working toward melding your inner self and your persona you project to the world. Yes, that can repel some people when it’s painful because they can’t deal with it, or it can repel you because you feel too exposed. You try to filter it, let out a bit to people you feel you can trust, but for you trusting people is fraught with risk because, hey, you can’t trust your own mother! But hey, you found David and he has his wounds and he is funny and brave and just goes “Here I am!” And I’m sure he pays a price for that willingness to be vulnerable, but his openness and honesty is why you trust him and you help and support each other deal with the fall-out from your respective crazy parents.
So, to allow yourself to do that (where your inner self is pretty much the same as your outer persona, only wearing pants and sensible shoes, guitar optional) is a good goal, even if some supposed friends can’t handle it. Well, to hell with ‘em. They are still acquaintances, then, not true friends. True friends would say “Holly, I can’t handle your pain, stop crying or I have to come back later when you’ve got it under control”, or “Holly, I don’t know what the hell you’re talking about but have some chocolate or wine, you sound miserable”, or “Holly, that sucks, what can I do to help?”. True friends will tell you the truth about what they feel; you don’t have to guess, even if you didn’t like what you heard. You need that kind of friends, not pseudo-friends who withdraw when you are struggling or nail garlic and crosses to the door to keep you out. You are more interesting than they are anyway. Complex people are interesting, but sometimes hard to read because they hide their internal selves even from themselves; you can be complex and transparent too. It’s a lot less work. It’s more fun. You don’t have to apologise. You do not suck.
And your situation only seemed extreme because you tried to hold in all those emotions to the bursting point. But you can let a lot out in your art without saying anything. Man, I could feel it looking at that painting, that’s good art. I didn’t really need to “understand” it, because I still “get” it. Pretense, especially where YOU don’t feel YOU are being authentic, is your enemy. If you were protecting David or yourself by hiding how you feel, you were just falling into a trap of thinking your feelings (a) don’t count and (b) aren’t acceptable. Well, if that is a lesson you were taught as a kid, it is like someone taught you the earth is flat.
So, how can you be honest with your Mom (“I want my name off this title”) without telling her the whole truth (Because I don’t trust you and I think you’re scamming Revenue Canada)? You are learning how. It gets easier with practice. Holly, in my line of work, I occasionally have to work with people who have a lot of problems and who aren’t very nice to people. I try to tell them the truth when they ask my opinion, because I don’t know if they have any friends who will.
Sometimes this hurts them. If I lied to them, they might feel better temporarily, keep doing what they’re doing (justified that a Psychologist said they were right), and end up even worse off. But sometimes, I give them the truth in bite-sized portions because I am not sure they can digest it all at once. So, you can piece it out to your mom over time, to the extent she demonstrates she can take it. She does not want to see herself as the villain, so in her mind she isn’t and therefore she rejects or reframes negative information to feel good about herself. This is kind of what you’ve been practicing, as I see it. So far, so good. Karma-wise, she left town, so you must be doing something right.
Blah blah blah. I am on holidays for two weeks starting next week. Not sure when I am seeing you guys again, but enjoy your summer such as it is. See you soon. ------------------------------------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: Holly Sent: July 13, 2010 6:49 PM
To: T
Subject: Re: A painting from Holly
Hallo... Thanks for asking, T...
Well, the mask may have appeared completely white at one time: how perhaps I appeared all happy-happy to everyone at one time... But as you can see, it's slowly being eaten away by various elements: emotions, time, wear and tear... I wanted the red & texture to signify pain, blood and musculature. I could see through my own mask and it hurt, it felt like things were getting peeled away, as though it was skinned alive, I guess you can say. I also felt that my mask was starting to slip (heh crack up) and I was a bit afraid that I would freak some people out. I felt like whatever was behind that persona was going to burst out any time, as the strain was starting to force things through to the outside from the inside. The crevice was as dark as I felt my inner thoughts and fears were.
I guess the regions around the outside of the mask could be interpreted as my inner universe and inner thoughts.
Originally the left side of the negative space was white, but red bleeds into it: I kept telling myself I have to be deceitful or I won't survive, but I hate being deceitful. The other side is black, void of colour, empty. Sometimes I would feel the pain and emptiness at once, sometimes one or the other. There is a little bit of white where the stars/light sort of leak through the crack. I am still not completely without hope. Some of the pain may bring some healing. It just hurts to deal with it right now.
I was tired of pretending things were good at work, tired of pretending things were good at home... But I most intensely disliked feeling what I felt at certain times with my mother and yet simultaneously felt like a horrid person when I didn't disclose how I really felt; and then there was the pain that if I did actually tell her what I was feeling, it wouldn't do me any good because she wouldn't listen anyway and somehow what I said would be twisted into something else in her head. And she wishes we two were best buds. Ha! I couldn't talk to anyone at work about my life at home (believe me, the few I mentioned some details to now avoid me or don't talk to me as much anymore, other than small talk)... I didn't want to talk to anyone else outside of work for the same thing. I had some really good friends who hadn't really talked to me in a really long time. I really am tired of telling people my problems and then they avoid me. Hence the mask. Oh yes, everything's just peachy. Nothing to see here. I would rather feel pain than scare everyone away.
Now that the most daunting of my issues has moved to BC, and the paperwork is finalized and confirmed, and David's business is picking up, and he's even thinking of getting another part time job during the week... So work doesn't seem nearly so horribly stressful anymore. lol
I am not sure if that is EXACTLY how you meant by your question... lol
Like the painting very much, although it is bit daunting. Do you have a conception of what the split represents or what the halves represent? ------------------------------------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: Holly
Sent: July 11, 2010 8:15 PM
To: T
Subject: A painting from Holly
I call it Persona... I'm afraid things are a bit obvious with this one... lol
And it was how I was feeling before, not how I feel now...
For an outline of what happened, please review the blog post below this one...
--------------------------------------------- This is after my brother R(youngest brother) and sister-in-law G called explaining what happened on Gramma's birthday; my reaction was to email another relative who went through some hellish moments with my mom...
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From: a relative
Sent: Monday, April 26, 2010 11:06 PM
Generalized info to protect sender: My relative did not want to fuel or cause any issues between my mom and other relatives. Another relative accidentally told one of my other relatives about what happened at our Grandma's 90th Birthday Picnic.
I was really worried that other people in our family think I am like my mother. But apparently this is not the case.
"And don't ever worry that anyone thinks that you are anything like Sandra. No one I have EVER talked to in our family thinks that at all!!"
It's really sad that my Mom can't see that she needs to get some help. It really is. My relative thinks she is getting worse too. And yes, poor Dad is apparently convinced somehow now that my dad's side of the family is against him and Sandra.
My relative expressed sadness and frustration, wishing something could be done so my Dad would call his own Mom (my Grandma) - when my Mom is NOT home so that he can have a nice visit on the phone with her. Whenever he calls, he never gets two words in. And the last time they called, Grandma cut my Mom off and asked your Dad about something...
My mom called my relative at my relative's WORK with harassing phone calls, saying my relative did something to Grandma C to make her think that they (my Mom and Dad) were evil. (Because Grandma C doesn't have much patience with my Mom anymore. And when my Mom calls, she just complains about all her woes, and never lets Dad say one word. That makes my relative the saddest. Grandma C always said that my Dad has a special place in her heart because she thinks he got treated the worst out of all nine kids by my Grandpa C. --------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: Holly
To: my relative
Sent: Monday, April 26, 2010 2:04 PM
lol
All I can say is Oh My GOD!
I knew something happened at the Birthday Reunion last spring, and I definitely knew my mother's version was, of course, her own watered-down with details warped-for-her-convenience/selective memory or whatever process she uses to diffuse/filter reality to suit her needs....
Something happened at my Gramma Soper's funeral too. Again, I know her version of events lacks detail because since then I haven't heard from any of my cousins her side and for a while I didn't want to contact them because my mom made it sound like they were all mean to her. Also we didn't go to her dad's funeral, instead had a memorial for him at home (grampa Soper). Apparently when she went to stay in Whitecourt while Gramma Soper's health was failing they (her own flesh and blood) made her stay at a stranger's house (a B&B kind of thing) and wouldn't let her stay at her brother's house, or any of her nieces' or nephew's places. She ended up, she says, staying in the room with her mom during the last days. Something tells me it was something my mother did to freak everyone out; she likely brought down circumstances on herself that had her ending up in that predicament.
Well, she seems to have finally done it. I thought I kind of had her figured out. I was kind of at peace with how she was. She is not healthy of mind. I don't know if she has always had lack of empathy and never really seemed to have genuine emotion, or if she just was raised to be like that. She always tried to emanate human emotion or imitate those that other people admired. But of course, she was never genuine, and because I don't think she has the ability to understand how human emotions or relationships work she completely messes up. She doesn't understand why the things she does are completely messed up. She claims she tries to be selfless and put family first, but she somehow can't see that what she is doing is usually somehow coming back around to serving her own needs. She thinks that rejection of her ideas means rejection of her. She doesn't seem to fathom that her actions cause people to cringe and step back as though burned. She only understands that she tried to be nice and still everyone is mad at her for some reason! 8P
It's so strange feeling sorry for her and yet feeling so angry at her.
I shouldn't have been so surprised when I heard what she said to everyone at the reunion. I was anyway. I thought that was how she used to act when we were growing up. She always blamed us kids for her blow-ups, (it was never HER) and I could sort of see that she and dad had isolated themselves from support and family in Alberta, so when you feel helpless, sometimes you do stupid things out of desperation. But apparently she STILL acts like this. And says horrible mean things. And says 'sorry' all over the place. But doesn't mean it. And brings up the past to throw in your face just when you think it is safe again... This made me so upset and mad that she did this that I was shaking. lol
Thank you for coming clean on this, it's probably a great relief for you. If it's any consolation, we've put up with that kind of behaviour as we were growing up so we kind of know what you're going through. We kids didn't feel like we had anyone we could talk to about her, and we held all that emotion inside and thought it was normal. We, including Dad (Malcolm), all seem to have terrible fact retention and memory problems, and I think that stems somewhat from Post Traumatic Stress or perhaps selective memory like she has. I would rather forget some of the things she said or done to me, at any rate.
We've tried talking to Dad about things with her before. If Dad ever did try to stick up for us kids or protest her actions against us, she would get jealous and make it sound like Dad loved us better than her. From the few conversations I've had alone with Dad, I've gotten the impression that he feels doomed to get Alzheimer's and if he does something wrong my mother will divorce him or leave him and he will be all alone. He's never come right out and said that, but he's mentioned his fears of losing his mind and he thinks my mom will stick with him through his apparently inevitable illness. If you have spoken to R or D you might also be aware that my mother is a master of manipulation and it's possible that she's convinced Dad that none of you care about him or that no one will help him except her or something like that. Perhaps this whole isolation thing is to convince him that he has to stay with her. I don't think it's even crossed his mind to leave her, or if it has he feels too guilty or too scared or some combination of the two. I agree that for the longest time he has been a shell and she is the puppet master.
The strange thing is, I believe she is sick, but she doesn't do anything to help herself heal, she just finds things outside of her that she imagines need fixing and that's the main problem. That's probably why she sticks with C (my middle brother) and Dad, because there is something wrong that makes them dependent on her. She's helped to make them that way, though. R and I used to be like that too, to various degrees, but we got out from her clutches. She only seems interested in you if you are vulnerable in some way; because then she sees an opportunity to use your vulnerability to her advantage. But if you show some backbone, she blames you for her failed relationship with you and backs off... lol
We limit our time with them, but at least that way I still get to see Dad even if he doesn't get to talk much... I had to take the day off from work today, called in sick. It kind of freaks me out and at the same time it is good to hear that I'm not crazy and that my perceptions of my mother are correct. Because sometimes I begin to doubt myself. Other times she says or does things that make me believe again that she is not of sound mind. But I guess I sometimes go into denial because who really wants to be the child of that kind of person? What does that make me? lol
Anyway I just wanted to offer you my support and love and wanted to make sure you and everyone else knows that just because she is my Mother, I am not like her at all. We can't tell her anything other than superficial details in our life otherwise she will try to interfere. So it is like when she visits everyone in Alberta, I am sure. My mom and dad don't have a clue about how things are with D and I of course. We're great, just struggling a bit to make ends meet right now, but managing. If she knew we were vulnerable in that way, then she would swoop in like a vulture. So there you go. And yes, I am sure, for the most part she longs for a family like everyone in Alberta has. Close-knit, supportive, normalcy, etc... She can't have it but she wants it so bad. But yet there are times she seems to have some clarity and freely admits she isn't really normal. And she doesn't get any help for it... She told me she chooses to 'pray' about things instead. I think it's easier to go with what her mind tells her rather than what a therapist might tell her. It seems if she isn't in control of a situation she backs out.
If you don't mind keeping this as confidential as possible, I am sure you will, but we have some things to work out here on our end with my mother.
The email I sent to DAD: (I had to have some reason to get our own lawyer's name, so I told my Dad I needed to get a document signed stating I was Holly F (last name) (nee C - maiden name) which I have to do anyway for when the house on Edward Street is sold)...
Hey there Dad,
Heya: FYI --Now my current name (Holly M F) is on the Title 105214980/105214991. Turns out I had to take the affidavit forms to ICS (Information Services Corporation) and not to Cindy H the Real Estate Lawyer. lol I wanted to go over some things with her anyway, so I booked a consultation with her. Mostly I am just writing this all down in an email because if I try to explain it verbally I will get lost in my own verbiage. lol If you guys could go over this and think on it together at some point and then get back to me in the next few days that would be awesome. If I can make it on Sunday again this weekend we can talk then as well. Gees I better! It’s Mother’s Day!
Just in case this wasn’t clear before, when I initially signed jointly with you folks on [HOUSE ADDRESS INFO AND LOT numbers]; blah blah blah) I didn’t know anything about property taxes or capital gains. I was admittedly naïve about the implications of signing a Land Title. I didn’t feel I was experienced enough with houses and was under the impression that I was safe in entrusting you two to look after things and I would live there. I also honestly didn’t think that it would take such a long time to sell the property. The way I remember things, or perhaps assumed things, was that I was promised a third of the house value after it sold for a graduation present. I certainly don’t mind the idea of being given $10,000 instead. Either way it is a gift of money I didn’t have before and mom has also promised the rest in the Will. I have mentioned, however, that I wanted to take my name off the Title several times. There are other a couple of other things that Cindy mentioned as well, but I only have two main concerns right now.
Firstly, are you two going to have a property manager? Cindy advised us that all three of us are landlords on this title. I just want to make this plain: I didn’t know that and I don’t want to be a landlord. Cindy advised that if you two are gone to BC and something happens such as repairs or other landlord duties, I would then be held legally liable as landlord, to assist the renters. It doesn’t matter about the liability insurance: Legally, I’m not just there in name. I do not want to be available 24/7 for repairs or calls, and I do not want to be responsible for collecting rental payments or dealing with renters in general. Cindy advised me that you guys can sign a document called an Indemnity Agreement that states that if anything happens I will not be liable as landlord to assist the renter. That is my main concern.
Secondly, I interpreted how Mom was describing how the property was set up between the three of us (you, me and her) as we were all 1/3rd owner of that property. I think for this reason she was thinking that we would all lose money if I took my name off the Title right now. However, Cindy informed me we all own it together right now. If the title was split three ways then we all would have separate documents with titles on them, not one title with all three names on one document, like we do, now. Therefore, the way Cindy described it, if I remove my name from the current Title the way things are, I won’t cause us all to lose a bunch of money like Mom was telling me… If the division of the property was done the way mom described it to me, then all three of us would have separate Titles/paperwork. Cindy explained we are all on one title. Basically the way it is set up right now, is that whoever is the last living person on that title gets the property. It would only be assumed that after selling the property before that, that there would be a division of income/taxes.
It’s possible that there was a misunderstanding, or incorrect information from your accountant. I don’t think anyone would intentionally mislead anyone else. That is why I need all four of us (D and I, and you and mom) to sit down with Cindy H in the near future (before you leave to go to BC) to go over a these things together as a team. That way everyone’s best interests are covered and we are all clear on everything.
Let me know what’s a good day for you guys and we’ll book it for you if you like. Cindy mentioned anytime from between 9:30am and later is best, and Thursdays and Fridays are best for her. I am going to try to take some time off in May on the 23 – 29th, but if given enough advance notice I can come on May 20th or 21st next week. It is $35 for the 30 minute consultation (which we paid for today). Cindy advised it will cost the same $35 for the consultation for the first 30 min when we all meet together in the future. FYI: If it takes more than 30 min she starts to charge for the hourly rate of $150/hr. If it comes to that, we hope you will be willing to split the cost. But it will probably cost only $35.
Thanks for your help in straightening this all out.
Love,
- Holls -
--------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------- This email refers to the attachment above (the email I sent to Dad)
To some relatives of mine:
Hey there,
Ready for a good story??? lol
I know I can trust you all enough to keep this from getting back to my mom or dad... And since you guys are all routing for me I thought I would send you all the same email to keep you abreast of things...
I called back and sure enough mom was sounding pretty pissy about the whole 'went behind her back' thing... But both Dad and her were on the phone. I don't know how much Dad already knew or what she rehearsed him to say, but they both seemed pretty miffed. And Dad apparently is pretty up to speed on a lot of things. Even though I was a bit disheartened that Dad is backing her up again, I was encouraged that he heard what I had to say at the same time that Mom is there.
But what got my mom's paranoid brain stirred up was that 'I never brought any of this up' with her before. I politely reminded her that I brought some of these things up just last week and also a few more times in the past, and I advised her that when I got a response from her, she spoke to me in a very defensive manner, high-pitched and really speedy so I ended up being more confused then ever. Sound familiar? Apparently I disrespected them by not asking them about this first, and I hurt their feelings, and there must be some reason why I am 'all of a sudden' bringing this up. Unbeknownst to her, I have been hanging on to these papers for removing my name off the title since 2008!
Anyway she eventually calmed down, mostly because I repeated over and over that I didn't think I was doing anything wrong, I didn't ever want to do anything to hurt them, I just wanted to be educated fully on my rights as a Title owner and thought it was quite ridiculous that I didn't even know who my real estate lawyer's name was (turns out Dad provided me the wrong one, Cindy was actually a sort of all-purpose lawyer, not a real-estate agent, but knew her stuff nonetheless)... Also I think Mom KNEW that I went to Cindy partially because of Mom being all defensive. Also I genuinely thought I was supposed to give Cindy the affidavit on the form stating that I am the same person as Holly Maiden name, only now my name is Married Name. At first Mom was wondering why on earth I did that (obviously Dad forgot that I told him). I explained I would have to do that anyway when the Edward Street property sold. Mom even conveniently invented a reason for me doing this other than for my own protection; she said perhaps I was 'very sensitive' about how it would 'look' if I was the only one on a Title with Mom and Dad in the eyes of R and G... lol Weird how it's never about ME being intelligent enough to just look into things for my own curiosity and benefit. Anyway I told them that R and G NEVER said anything regarding that issue and that I was acting on my own. I neither fully denied or confirmed that was the reason. But I have a feeling, that as a rule, she makes up things in her brain that make sense to her and ignores everything else. So at the beginning of this call she was all paranoid and by the end of this call she was all 'oooh I understand NOW' and that was that.
That was news to me by the way. I had thought at least C (my middle brother) was still on a Title with them, but apparently they have reasons not to have ever fancied the idea. And they seem very certain that the letter that R provided them removed him from that Title he used to be on, as her actual real-estate lawyer had advised her at the time that it would be fine to be 'gifted' that property (I think it was the 1/2 of the duplex on Elliot?)...
See another thing I found out (through Cindy the Lawyer) about being the Executor on the Will: if no other siblings are on a Title with them on this or other properties, that makes it look like I am really really keen on getting a benefit financially on the house, as though I deliberately became Executor for that reason only. I never wanted it that way. It just made sense to me because Mom and Dad don't think C is capable and for obvious reasons R can't be either. It was my understanding that whatever is in the Will is what I dispense and that's it. Apparently the want to have an Executor of the Will because they'd rather pay a child of theirs than a lawyer. I never got money from the rentals, I never put money into the house, I thought my name was name only. So I advised Mom that if I can't remove my name from the Title (if it was deemed for certain that removing my name would cause Mom and Dad to lose thousands of dollars like Mom told me last week) then I would like to at least temporarily NOT be the Executor of the Will until the house is sold.
The other thing Cindy advised me of is, if Mom and Dad go to BC then unless they have a property manager, I will be considered liable (not necessarily for pain/injury but for just being legally a LANDLORD which I don't want to be).... Mom flatly denied she was ever going to ask us to do anything landlord-related (even though in the phone conversation she and I had last week, she said something about D (husband) and I might have a rare occasion when we might have to help Mom and Dad out)..... Cindy advised if that if I don't want to be a landlord and there IS no property manager, then I can get an Indemnity Agreement signed which will effectively render me completely NOT responsible in the duties of landlord.
So now things look a little sunnier for me. Mom and Dad want to go see this lawyer, Cindy, on their own first and get some of their facts straightened out. What it sounds like, from what Cindy explained, was that we are all on the title together, so there should be no loss of income if I remove my name from the Title.
If I am able to take my name off the Title without causing everyone financial ruin (that my Mom kept claiming would happen) then that is the simplest thing; I can still be the Executor of the Will and the Indemnity Agreement becomes a moot point. Apparently it's cheaper than removing me as the Executor of the Will temporarily, hiring someone else temporarily, and then putting me back on as Executive of the Will once that house is sold.
If I misunderstood Cindy or she didn't give me all the correct information, and I do end up staying for MY own circumstances on the Title of the house, then I am STILL going to get that Indemnity Agreement signed. It's not a perfect solution, but it's better than nothing.
Other things of interest:
- Mom and Dad apparently will have sold all of these houses they own by around the age of 71 or 72 because, apparently at that age, the government will 'force' them to start using their RRSPs; so they want to sell all the houses before that happens, albeit when they feel the time is right.
- The Edward Street house they are trying to sell in the winter because in the spring/summer there are piles of gophers in the area digging around the house in the gravel and also they had to repair the last basement wall that was still leaking. They say they plan to sell that property ASAP before any other property... Which makes me feel better, if that's the truth.
- Apparently the Rentalsman Agreement states that my parents can hire whomever they wish to have as a manager of their properties and they have already got people looking after their properties, and never in a million years were my parents ever going to call D and I to look after things.... Because apparently my parents have had this house they bought in BC... I thought a few months ago, but actually THREE years ago they bought it... And they have experience renting out that property in BC from here in Saskatchewan... Hmmm lol
- I am not sure how they are pulling this off, but this could be the reason they mentioned that this move to BC might not be a permanent thing. They said even when they move to BC their primary residence will still be in Saskatchewan, but I had thought you had to spend at least 6 months in SK for that to be the case...
Anyway, sorry to make a long story longer, but they are going to be seeing Cindy today, and get their facts straight, and my Mom even said if I still didn't feel comfortable about something we could all go visit Cindy again next week to go over some things. Which I will hold her to.
So, my husband feels like I did a great job (unbeknownst to me he was on the phone eavesdropping for the last hour of the phone call). I feel somewhat elated and at the same time exceedingly surreal that I have to pull off what I feel is an Oscar-Award winning production to pull off an otherwise simple and easy thing. I feel a little dirty but I don't know how the heck else I was supposed to do this by myself. And it's also kind of scary that I think I'm nearly as good an actor as Mom is. That kind of freaks me out.
So I'll give you a much briefer, less intense update after they go meet with Cindy on their own...
Wow, whatta day. What a long hour and a half phone call this morning... Apparently we are still on good terms... So, please keep this strictly confidential (well, between you and your roommate)... Everything isn't quite worked out yet, but it's getting there... If this got to them accidentally on Facebook or something shit would really hit the fan, so please let's keep it to private emails and phone calls and conversations and the like. Tomorrow we apparently aren't talking about this stuff in front of C and we are also only celebrating 'Mother's Day..' Got to at least behave like everything's normal, right? 8P
The attachment above is basically the same as the first one I sent to you but I think I ended up editing it some more before I sent it Fri morning... The email below is a sort of 'brief' rundown of what ensued.
I would have included you in the email below with my relatives, but I thought I would send it to you separately because they don't know you... --------------------------
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Hi friend,
So it looks like I am getting my name taken off the title! 8D After my mom called three times in one day (we weren't answering the phone because as far as she knows D is still working full time)... I called her back and she and I discussed Cindy's email below.
Apparently my mom will let me bring the forms over for her and dad as I wish we'll all have a look at them. If she wants I can leave her copies. She is willing to sign everything. Other than one form needing a witness signature, I think we all three of us can sign the other forms at my parents' house. The one that needs a witness I think we all have to sign in front of a Notary. I told my mom that even though Cindy provided me with the information below, I still wanted my name removed from the Title.
So my mom mentioned in a slightly annoyed voice that because of this action I am taking, they will be required to do another assessment on the property which she said will cost them $350. Logically I feel that she has taken advantage of me from the get-go, although sometimes I still feel guilty for taking these actions... I guess she really is that good of an actress. I mean, my dad is completely taken with her. Emotionally right now, I feel like because she is doing so well with these negotiations, I should let go of the past and offer to pay half of the $350 for the re-assessment.
I just wanted to touch base with you before doing anything to see what you think I should do. Because if I do pay it, that might show some sign of weakness again to her, or maybe in this case I don't have to worry about that anymore.
Subject: Re: Holly follow up to Land Title Questions
Hi Holly,
I have spoken to your mom and she has confirmed that she has spoken to her accountant and is comfortable removing your name from title, if that is your wish. Having received this confirmation, a meeting between the parties is likely not required at this time.
Your mom has authorized me to let you know that the Last Will and Testament includes a clause that gives each child the option to choose a house as part of their distributive share and use it for revenue purposes or to sell it and retain the sale proceeds, as the child may wish. It is an option and not a requirement. She feels that this may relieve some of your worry in being the Executor with a property that already has your name on title. In that regard, if the property remains in your name, there is no liability on your part vis a vis that title in the event of your parents' death. At most, you would need to account for it as an asset of the estate held in trust, but with the provision in the Will that each child may choose a property, this property would be seen as your choice.
If you would like to proceed with the transfer to remove your name and would like my assistance in preparing these documents, please let me know. If there are further questions or discussions required, a meeting of all parties involved will be needed so as to avoid a conflict of interest situation.
I could have sworn my mom said she was going to see Cindy the Lawyer that same day (Sat May 8) she talked to me on the phone. But I guess, even though that was my mom's intent, that Cindy is without a secretary for three weeks (we all know how wonderful administrative assistants are, right! 8D )...
So even though I am SO ready to have this over and done with I have to wait until Cindy gets ahold of my mom again. And everything has to appear sunshine and rainbows between us.
My mom says if she doesn't hear from Cindy by Wednesday that she will call her again. I said I will call on Thursday to see what's what. So far she is acting very much like she wants to help me with my wishes out of concern for my well-being, apparently. Funny I don't recall her doing much for my well-being at other times in my life...
-Holls-
PS I'll keep ya posted.
----------------------------------------
So here is the update....It looks like I am getting my name taken off the title! So far..... 8P Unless there is some unforeseen change in my mother's mood or the planets don't quite align properly to her liking or something... This could all go smoothly or it could still go very badly. I feel a bit sick to my stomach each time I call her about this thing.
After my mom called our house three times in one day (we weren't answering the phone because a] as far as she knows my husband is still working full time and b] she isn't supposed to call that early in the morning and two of those calls were before 9am)... I called her back and she and I discussed Cindy's (the lawyer) email below. I'm not sure what the big deal was, because she said if she didn't hear from Cindy she would call her and I was going to call her back on Thursday if I hadn't heard from mom.
I told my mom that even though Cindy provided me with the information below, I still wanted my name removed from the Title. Apparently my mom will let me bring the forms over for her and dad as I wish we'll all have a look at them. If she wants I can leave her copies. She is willing to sign everything. Other than one form needing a witness signature, I think we all three of us can sign the other forms at my parents' house. The one that needs a witness I think we all have to sign in front of a Notary.
So I will try to get these things signed as soon as possible, hopefully before my week vacation on May 23rd... She still thinks I am worrying needlessly about 'something' but what are you going to do? She still suspects that something outside of myself is the reason for removing the name from the title, but whatever.
I will let you know when I get my name officially removed... Hopefully no later than next week...
So here is the latest update... Keep this under your hat pretty please... It's still not quite finished...
Even when things are all signed, and if things don't turn sour on their own (via my mother), I might at least like to keep an amicable relationship going, because at least she's been very good about this whole thing, despite the past.
Thank you, T.... That was just the smack in the head I needed...
-Holls- --------------------------------------
From: T
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 9:19 AM
To: Holly
Subject: RE: Email back from Cindy: Holly -follow up to Land Title Questions
Nonononononononooooo!!!
If she wants to be petty, she can deduct the $350 from your portion of the sale of the house. You never agreed to be in the position where you incurred costs/responsibilities, and the time/energy you have spent on worrying/investigating/managing this issue already (or managing her, to be more precise) is worth more than three and a half bills. She can pay it, don’t worry, she’s rolling in dough you don’t know about.
So, nonononoononononooooo!!! Please!!
Do not be guilted, this is not the past you have to let go, this is the present where she is still manipulating you emotionally. If there were hidden costs to be incurred at any point, it is her responsibility not yours. It’s her house, she wants to reap the profits so she should pay the costs. You can do what, apologise for not knowing it would cost her money to do something she did without you knowing about it? You signed no contract with her, did you? There was no “full disclosure” was there? She has not yet apologized for getting you into this without you knowing there were liabilities involved. Isn’t that worth $350 to you?
Holly, take the stack of emails you have written to me and others on this issue, staple it to a logbook of the number of hours you and D have spent worrying/strategizing about this house plus living in it when it was mouldy and your “landlady” wasn’t paying anybody to deal with the problem because you are her daughter so you can suffer, and multiply that by the cost of therapy to your employer(s) to help you deal with her. How much does that add up to so far? (I’m not good at math, I’ll have to trust you on this). I think she still OWES you money.
I have said enough. Smack yourself in the head so you can dislodge that worm she just put in there. It is not you. Help her pack for BC. Then move to Florida.
T
-------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: Holly
Sent: May 12, 2010 7:30 PM
To: T
Subject: Email back from Cindy (real estate lawyer): Holly F-follow up to Land Title Questions
Hi T,
So it looks like I am getting my name taken off the title! 8D After my mom called three times in one day (we weren't answering the phone because as far as she knows D is still working full time)... I called her back and she and I discussed Cindy's email below.
Apparently my mom will let me bring the forms over for her and dad as I wish we'll all have a look at them. If she wants I can leave her copies. She is willing to sign everything. Other than one form needing a witness signature, I think we all three of us can sign the other forms at my parents' house. The one that needs a witness I think we all have to sign in front of a Notary. I told my mom that even though Cindy provided me with the information below, I still wanted my name removed from the Title.
So my mom mentioned in a slightly annoyed voice that because of this action I am taking, they will be required to do another assessment on the property which she said will cost them $350. Logically I feel that she has taken advantage of me from the get-go, although sometimes I still feel guilty for taking these actions... I guess she really is that good of an actress. I mean, my dad is completely taken with her. Emotionally right now, I feel like because she is doing so well with these negotiations, I should let go of the past and offer to pay half of the $350 for the re-assessment.
I just wanted to touch base with you before doing anything to see what you think I should do. Because if I do pay it, that might show some sign of weakness again to her, or maybe in this case I don't have to worry about that anymore.
Subject: Re: Holly; follow up to Land Title Questions
Hi Holly,
I have spoken to your mom and she has confirmed that she has spoken to her accountant and is comfortable removing your name from title, if that is your wish. Having received this confirmation, a meeting between the parties is likely not required at this time.
Your mom has authorized me to let you know that the Last Will and Testament includes a clause that gives each child the option to choose a house as part of their distributive share and use it for revenue purposes or to sell it and retain the sale proceeds, as the child may wish. It is an option and not a requirement. She feels that this may relieve some of your worry in being the Executor with a property that already has your name on title. In that regard, if the property remains in your name, there is no liability on your part vis a vis that title in the event of your parents' death. At most, you would need to account for it as an asset of the estate held in trust, but with the provision in the Will that each child may choose a property, this property would be seen as your choice.
If you would like to proceed with the transfer to remove your name and would like my assistance in preparing these documents, please let me know. If there are further questions or discussions required, a meeting of all parties involved will be needed so as to avoid a conflict of interest situation.
Cindy (real estate lawyer)
-------------------------------------- -------------------------------------- -------------------------------------- Hey there Mom and Dad,
I was hoping we could meet at the Knight Archer Insurance on Saturday around 9am (I was advised that it gets insanely busy later in the day)... It's the one on Victoria Avenue, east of PC Place.... Anyway it looks like we just need to have one of the documents signed and witnessed by Gwen or Carol, but that we need to have a total of 3 documents co-signed...
I've also had to fill in a couple of other documents but you don't need to sign them as they are just for information purposes...Here are the two that I am referring to... You just click on these links
just click on these on that website I gave you above and you can print them off... Remember you guys don't need to fill them out, I am just showing you what forms I am talking about that I had to fill out....
I was advised by the ISC folks that I needed two Titles of Affidavit of Value as well (each two pages)
One set of forms I filled out for Title Number 105214980 and one I filled out for Title Number 105214991 (one is for Land and the other for Mineral on the same location) http://www.isc.ca/ISCForms/Documents/Land%20Titles/Affidavits%20and%20Certificates/ISC-LTR-TAV0001%20-%202006%2002%2017.pdf --- I am only filling out section 2 and 4 as required From what I can tell on this form, I think I am the only one who is signing it as the one who (in section 4) is signing over the title to you two; it also needs to be signed by a Notary Public.... So you might not even need to be there for this one, just the one below...
Here is the form all three of us sign... I have them all filled out already (except for the signatures & notarization of course), so again, no need to do anything with this info, I just wanted to show you where I got the info and what the form says; you can print the form off if you like...
---- If you look down to the section that says 'Affidavit of Execution (if witness is not a Saskatchewan lawyer); at the bottom of page 1 and also page 2, this is where we need the witness signature of a Notary Public...
--
Remember, this is just so you can see all the forms... I am sure when we go to Knight Archer Insurance they will be happy to photocopy everything if you would like copies of the notarized and signed forms...
Just an FYI: I am going to see if I can call my parents and get them to sign the forms this weekend... Just to make it extra simple I sent the form links to them so they can look at what I am doing...
Basically it's all free and my mom was trying to make it seem like it would cost a bunch of money... Maybe she genuinely thought it would, but we don't have to pay $ even for the notary public notarization because we have house insurance with them...
Anyway, I am going to call them tomorrow and see if I can pull this off... Wish me luck...
Well I was hoping to get her to sign it this Saturday (tomorrow) but she says she has to work on Friday night, so she requested the following Saturday... I was hoping I could have relaxed better during my week off from work, but whatever... I don't really want her to know I have the week off or she might expect me to spend time over there... I never tell her when I have time off, so why start now?
Anyway, I have to be careful. If I insist on this Saturday that will strike her as strange, and anyway I know for certain I have next Saturday off, so I am going with the flow here...
Just thought I would keep you posted, and last time I sent an email, I told you I was hoping it was tomorrow (May 22). Well ya can't win em all!
Oldest posts can be reached by looking in the Blog Archive or by clicking "Older Posts" at the bottom of each page. Please note that I am not a professional psychologist/psychiatrist: I don't want the things I went through in my life to be for nothing. My hope is people find this blog it might help point them in the right direction.
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